I used to write short stories and the such but I am sure writing music is a different thing. Do we have anyone here that writes their own stuff, are you writing the notes or the lyrics or both? I can always think of a good story behind a song, but I just can not get the tune right. I guess I am not that type of writer.

Writing songs is so fun- if you are a writer of prose then you should try to write the lyric and see what tune comes to you.

You could also start with an existing tune and write lyrics to that, then change the melody you used into something new and different.

I like to write both the lyrics and the music- it's like writing the songs you wish were on the radio!

Or pull a Rogers and Hammerstein style pairing and find someone to write music to your lyrics! And write music that you can put some lyrics to!

It's been done all across history. Kander and Ebb is another big pairing. George and Ira Gershwin.

I don't write lyrics just instrumental songs. I try to convey emotions in a structure to hopefully tell a story though, but sometimes i just go with sounds good to my ear.

Sounds like you're more in line with Nietzsche, Strauss, and Berlioz's way of thinking. They (and many others) all thought that music alone could convey a succession of events or even a full story. The idea was called Program music at the time.

The opposing side (Wagner, Immanuel Kant, et al) decided that music could only convey an emotion, but not events. They argued that melodies could only be described with adjectives, rather than being given an event that was unequivocally understood. Music may have sounded sad, intense, aggressive, lovely, mysterious, but it could never portray a story.

I guess I've made it obvious which side I fall into...this might be a good discussion in another thread, actually.

A curious character in the debate, which is still going on in modern music today (including rock, pop, instrumental, neo-classical, etc. etc.), is Beethoven. Both sides claim him as a champion of their viewpoint, and even though he wrote much that was considered absolute music at the time, there are still plenty of pieces, particularly his sixth and ninth symphonies, for which he wrote out a series of events to be noted in the program upon their performance. He never stated which side his beliefs fell on.

I know in particular when I here the entirety of Beethoven's 5th, my mind imagines it as a war epic, with times of peace, conflict, and victory displayed by the different emotions of the piece.

`

Yup, it's up to the listener's mind.

Music can definitely be described in more
concrete terms than just adjectives alone
might convey .... but we can't insist that
all descriptions of a single musical piece
ought to be alike ... or even similar.

I just did a way quick review of the 5th.
The 3rd movement opens up sounding a
bit war-like, but as it progresses it gets
almost comical. I didn't find anything in
the rest of the 5th that would be war-like
in and of itself. It's up to each individual
listener whether it "portrays" creation, or
destruction, or maybe just a lotta noise.

http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Oeuvres/Music-Midi-Mp3-Symphonies.html


`

only the third you find? That first movement is so dramatic and powerful! Its the part everybody knows. If not a war, some politician clamoring on why war is necessary. I had a cd with the fifth on it on a long car ride and I mapped out a whole opera in my head for it, lol. It is a very powerful piece.

`

Right. Even before this reply, I went back
and listened to some of that 'con brio' in
the 1st mvmt ... very powerful but not in a
threatening manner. More like an image of
creation than destruction.

Maybe thaz partly cuz the powerful theme
is right there at the opening ... how it just
comes outa the silence with no antecedent.
So much power coming so suddenly outa
nothingness hits me more as creation, the
'big bang' perhaps, but not as a threat to
my security, freedom, or well being.


Hey didja try that link ? It's all midis. So I
spoze they can be loaded easily into some
sorta software so you can mess with LVB.
Myself, I just lizzen. It's a handy quick
reference site.


`

`

I just listened again. I still feel the same.
However, in trying to put myself in your
shoes, I can switch perspectives and see
what you mean. But I don't really *feel*
it. It makes me take a guess about you,
so tell me how well I'm guessing:

1. You're a trained and reasonably capable
player. Maybe play some symphonic stuff.

2. You're fairly young, prolly under 30 and
maybe way under 30.

3. You have wide-ranging tastes. No one
would call you narrow or parochial.

-----------------------

Yes this "goes somewhere". I'm guessing
that even tho you're musically well trained
and might even play some LVB, and some
other "heavy" classical pieces, that you are
not immune to the all-media-all-the-time
world that envelopes many people, most
especially younger people.

Thus I've wound up guessing that you've
'drunk the kool aid' that conditions you to
associate very powerful, heavy symphonic
passages with imminent danger or threat.
It's a media-immersion thing, typical of
younger folks, but not limited to younger
folks. And hey, I'm just guessing, for the
fun of it, why we get opposite images of
the same music. It's not a mystery that
really *needs* solving.

I admit, I'm taking a guess by laying a
cliche onto someone I've never met.



`

Wow that was fairly accurate-

1. Somewhat trained fairly capable, mostly self-taught

2. 23.5 years old

3. I listen to almost anything except some rap.

The only LVB i can play is Fur Elise on Piano, and only the main part, I must admit I am a bass player by nature and better and playing complex single voices then any more then basic counterpoint.

I like alot of classical music but my knowledge is pretty bare, I do love Bach though, mostly the Fugues and technical stuff and not so much the Chorals and other similar things.

I tend to like alot of heavy stuff, new and old, i just don't like screaming, I'll here the first 30 seconds of some heavy metal band and be really into it, then the vocals come in and I kringe.

I guess I probably fit the cliche with the heavy stuff. But I do like softer things and even some pop, I like Lady Gaga for some reason. for instance with LVBs 5th I do like the 2nd movement as well, its very peaceful and beautiful, but wouldn't you know it my favorite part of the whole symphony has to be that main melody in the third movement.

I wanna be clear that the cliche concerning
heavy stuff does NOT suggest that heavy is
your only, or your fave, material. The cliche
is only about the imagery that it evokes for
you when you might happen to be hearing
some heavy stuff.

The ominous and threatening nature of the
music that sets you up for every attack by
the 'demonic' shark in "Jaws" is a textbook
case, quite literally, since it has become a
well-worn teaching tool in "media" courses.

-----------------------------------

I never actually saw "Jaws" until recently,
but I can't count the number of references
to it that have crossed my awareness. As I
said, it is THE textbook example. So finally
I saw the flik ... in a bar, on a TV, with the
sound muted and no subcaptioning. Minus
that fabled sound track, it's a cartoonishly
overacted, underwritten sub-B movie. As a
full color silent movie [with no text frames
to narrate the story] it's a kinda slapsticky
pantomimed parody of 'adventure dramas'.



`

I agree with you, there is more to war then just the battle, all the political and societal implications, i really wish I had written down my ideas i thought it was good at the time lol.

as a matter of fact I had taken a music scoring class in college and yes, jaws is in the textbook, but visuals are very influential on the masses feel for certain music, alot of classical music for instance people only know it from movies and commercials.

I am very much a lyric guy. I love strophic form and well versed lyric, but as far as music conveying a message on its own, Debussy is the guy I would have to hand it to. Everything he composed has an ethereal and philosophical message to me. Amazing composer.

Even when he just wrote..."clouds,"hahaha... I think his work with Mallarme was the best. "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" will always have a special place in my ears.